Q&A with Adam Nussbaum: Among Drummers

You’ve always been highly regarded as a drummer in the Elvin Jones mode, but this new project is coming from a wholly different point of view.

When I first heard Elvin Jones, that was after I had heard Jimi Hendrix. I was 11, 12 years old when Hendrix came on the scene. I heard him and was completely enamored with that music. Then about a year later, I heard Coltrane, and it was like, “Wait a minute. This drummer kind of sounds like that guy from Jimi Hendrix Experience.” So, I did hear the cart before the horse.

That sounds like guitarist Dave Fiuczynski, who once told me when he first heard Hendrix, long after he had passed, he thought, “Man, this guy’s ripping off Hiram Bullock.”

Right. A lot of guys hear the children before the father. So, basically, I was just very much drawn to that way of playing, kind of a more open, loose, more interactive way of playing, where the drums were really part of the whole musical fabric, not just a metronome.

That whole going over the bar-line aesthetic, like what Mitch Mitchell does on “If 6 Was 9.”

There’s a whole lot of examples of Mitch doing that. Anyway, that first Hendrix record, Are You Experienced?, was so defining for me. But I was digging Leadbelly even before that. My parents had a very diverse record collection—classical music, jazz, ethnic music, Spanish music, blues, gamelan music, you name it. And they had these two Leadbelly records. And if you look on the back cover of my CD, you see those two original records pictured. Those Leadbelly records were among the first records that really grabbed me as a little kid, like when I was 4, 5 years old. The blues and folk music really resonated with me. And I never forgot those Leadbelly tunes. Because when you’re young, those things burn deep into your being like nursery rhymes.

So, what triggered your idea of doing The Lead Belly Project, and why now?

When I decided to do this project, I was thinking that nowadays I’m hearing so much music that sounds like math and science. I’m somebody where there has to be a visceral connection to the music. There has to be something there that’s real honest and truthful. And I was looking for some nice, simple material. Because truth be told, when you have great musicians, you don’t need to give them anything complicated, you just need to give them a springboard to improvise. So, part of this was me reflecting on what’s going on and thinking, “I want to do something where I just have some great cats, use some simple music and just play.”

You know, I’m 62 years old now. This was the first CD I’ve released under my own name. I have coordinated several projects, but I never wanted to do it under my name because I figured, “I’m just coordinating it and everybody’s got a piece of the influence here.” But this was something where I figured, “I’m not getting any younger and I don’t have to prove anything to anybody at this point. I’m proud of this recording; I feel good about it. And it’s totally connected to my history, doing this Leadbelly thing.

You play some beautiful brushes on The Lead Belly Project. It’s kind of a signature of yours throughout the record. Do you feel like you’re channeling someone in that department?

Everyone I’ve ever seen has affected me. Everyone I’ve ever heard has affected me, in terms of things I want to do and also things I don’t want to do. And I was able to see quite a few of the masters, which was very important to me. Because brushes is something you gotta see, in order to get the vibe. When you hear a guy playing with sticks, you can kind of figure out what he’s doing. But with brushes, you don’t have a clue what is physically going on. Is the guy going clockwise, counter-clockwise? You don’t know what kind of motion is going on. I coordinated something with Steve Smith for Hudson Music about 10 years ago, a DVD project called The Art of Playing With Brushes. We got Charli Persip, Ben Riley, Eddie Locke, Billy Hart, Joe Morello, Steve Smith and myself. Basically, I wanted to document those players and have it be a guide for people, so they would have an idea about different options you would have in order to play the brushes. It’s seven hours long, because we have seven guys playing all different feels and tempos, so you can see how it’s done. And everybody who plays brushes has a different choreography. Truth be told, it should’ve been done in the early ‘60s when you had [Kenny Clarke] around; you had Shelly Manne, Papa Jo Jones, Mel Lewis … You know, the cats who really knew how to do this. So, I got the cats that I could at the time, and right after it was finished, Joe Morello passed away; then Eddie Locke passed away; now Ben Riley’s gone. There’s not many left, bro’.

I mean, I feel so grateful to have been able to sit next to most of my heroes. You know, sitting in the Village Vanguard in the corner right by the drums. I mean, that’s my jazz corner of the world. It wasn’t virtual, it was actual. It didn’t come from a book, it didn’t come from a record. Of course, books and records were things that I investigated, but there’s no substitute like being in the room right there. When I go to the Vanguard today, I still sit in that seat and just think of all the history I was able to absorb and feel. I mean, Roy Haynes, Tony Williams, Bernard Purdie, Shelly Manne, Vernell Fournier, Mickey Roker, Billy Higgins, Al Foster, Billy Hart, Joe Chambers. These cats used to sit next to their heroes when they were young and get inspired. It just keeps going.

And you’re part of that continuum.

Listen, this is something that I realize. So, now when there’s a young drummer checking me out, it reminds me of when I was at the Vanguard in the corner right by the drums, checking out my heroes. And those cats were all generous. They were all very giving and very supportive, and I am grateful for that. Elvin was a sweetheart to me, Mel Lewis, Jabali, Haynes, Blakey, Jack DeJohnette, cats who aren’t even that well known, like Eddie Moore and Eddie Marshall. If I start naming them all, I’ll forget others. Everybody was cool with me, man. Everybody was giving. They must’ve seen something in how I was looking at them. They saw my love, my passion and they remember when they were in the same position, sitting next to their guys when they were young and getting inspired.

It seems like there is a particularly strong fraternity among drummers.

The drum thing is different than guitar players or trumpet players. There’s a more competitive thing going on there with those instruments. But with drummers, it’s more of a brotherhood. And at the end of the day, we know that the quickest way to change the sound of the band is to change the drummer. We can make a band, we can break a band. And there’s a certain camaraderie. We all get together and it’s a good feeling, it’s a beautiful scene, man. You know, we’re all just trying to get that groove together … make the band feel good, make everybody happy. That’s why we’re going to work. It ain’t about us sounding good, it’s about helping the band sound good. 

JazzReview.com: You just returned from a tour overseas? 

Adam Nussbaum: I did a gig at a jazz festival in Rehovot, Israel. Actually, it was one of the first gigs under my own name. When I got a chance to do this gig, I thought I would recruit guys I love playing with. Jerry Bergonzi and Dan Wall were the other people in the group. I’ve played with both of those guys over the years. I figured it was a chance for us to just have a good time and play. We didn’t have to worry about developing any kind of camaraderie because it was already there. Before we left on the tour, I sent them a few tunes that might be fun to do. One was a tune I wrote, and the others were re-arrangements on standards to give them a different slant. I think it’s nice for people to hear something they can relate to. On the other hand, we wouldn’t want to reiterate the way those tunes have already been done. I think that any drummer changes how the arrangements are played anyway, even when nothing is formally structured. The drums dictate the sonic palette of the groups. The ickety-boom and the spittle-a-ding should be working in harmony. 

That was a lot of traveling for a seventy-five-minute set, but it was nice because I got to hear Wayne Shorter’s new band. 

Before going there, I did a few gigs in Canada with pianist/singer Patricia Barber. She plays, writes and sings really well, and she really gets a vibe going. Also, I was in Italy for two weeks with Steve Swallow and a Sicilian pianist named Giovanni Mazzerino. And I’ve been involved in different projects this year. I was in a quartet with Kenny Wheeler, John Taylor and Chris Laurence. Of course, the hits with Moody are fun. Those have included Renee Rosnes and Todd Coolman. At the end of this year, I’ll be touring with Steve Swallow and Chris Potter. The name that Swallow gave the group is Damaged In Transit. 

That sounds like a lot of work, but the unfortunate reality is that these jobs last only a few weeks. None of those situations offer extended touring schedules. If you string enough of them together, you can somehow stay busy. I’m fortunate to be able to do that. I think a more ideal situation would be if a band could work on a regular basis. 

JazzReview.com: How were you able to string them together? 

Adam Nussbaum: People call me for jobs, and I try to juggle my calendar. 

JazzReview.com: Do you have a manager or agent? 

Adam Nussbaum: Just me, myself and I, as well as my lovely wife when she answers the phone. The best way to get a gig is to have a gig. If someone comes to hear you and you’re taking care of the situation, it can lead to more work. 

JazzReview.com: You mentioned that your wife works with you to book gigs. Where did you meet her? 

Adam Nussbaum: I met her on the telephone. An old friend of mine used to work at a firm on Wall Street. When I used to call him to shoot the bull, this very nice voice would answer the phone. I found out a little bit about her from him, and she found out a little bit about me from him. After about a year of being phone mates, I had him bring her down to one of my jobs. I said, “I want to see the package that goes with the voice. Bring her down to the gig. If it’s cool, it’s cool. If it ain’t, it’s still cool.” I liked what I saw, and we started going out. Now, we’ve been married for seventeen years. 

JazzReview.com: Does she still work? 

Adam Nussbaum: Yes. She used to work in Manhattan, but now we live in the country. Now, she works in reading math remedial programs for kindergarten and first-grade students. It’s a very satisfying job for her, and we also have kids. She’s the greatest. I’m madly in love with her. 

JazzReview.com: Does she travel with you? 

Adam Nussbaum: On occasion. I wouldn’t put people through what we have to do. [Laughs] When a musician is playing one-nighters, the whole object of the day is preparing for the gig. There is very little time for sightseeing. Occasionally, I’ll be able to be in one place for a while. For example, one year, I spent three weeks in Copenhagen. Another time, I played a week-and-a-half in Switzerland. Or on occasion, I’ve spent a week in Paris when a tour ends. In those circumstances, sometimes I consider bringing the family along. But the music is the reason the musician is traveling. Throughout that day, the musician has to focus on the level that the music has to be. Nobody cares if he or she had to take eight trains, miss flights, get sick or lose baggage. 

JazzReview.com: How do musicians keep going under sometimes adverse conditions. 

Adam Nussbaum: They have to do it because it’s their calling. When a musician is out there on gigs, what do they call that? It’s called “playing.” It’s supposed to be fun. The “work” consists of all of the tactics involved in getting to the job. But once the gig starts, the musicians are playing. They’re there because they love it. Hopefully, the musicians get a good energy from the audience. But my main responsibility is to the people on the stage. If good feeling and honesty occur on the stage, I think that people can feel that. 

JazzReview.com: At what age did you feel that playing drums is a “calling?” 

Adam Nussbaum: I studied piano extensively for five or six years when I was a kid. I really got into the drums when I was about the age of twelve. However, I had already been playing drums before that. My piano teacher, Katalin Staplefeldt, used to have a rhythm workshop every Saturday morning. We would play different instruments like the glockenspiel, triangle, marimba or xylophone. I usually gravitated toward the drums. 

I got into the drums by watching my older cousin, Peter Gaines, who was like a big brother. He was kind of a tour guide to the music for me. He played the right records for me. Also, he played the drums and the flute professionally. 

I never made a conscious decision that “oh, I have to become a musician.” I always enjoyed played, and I got calls. I just had to go with what was happening. 

I had tried to dissuade myself from playing music by going to a liberal arts college for a year. But I felt the call of the music, and I decided to put more energy into learning about it. So I went to City College, where I had big band experience with Ed Summerlin. He’s seventy-two and he writes some very interesting music. I was able to play in the third-stream ensemble under the direction of John Lewis. And I was able to be in a Latin ensemble directed by Charlie Palmieri, Eddie Palmieri’s older brother. So there was a vast variety of things for me to learn. I stayed there for a while. I never finished school because people were calling me to go out on the road. I wanted to play and learn that way. Looking back, it might have been good to finish my schooling to get the degree. A lot of institutions won’t consider a musician’s viability unless he or she has formalized credentials. In some instances, a musician with a lifetime of experience can apply at a university, but without that piece of paper, it won’t even consider the application. 

JazzReview.com: You studied with Charli Persip? 

Adam Nussbaum: Yes, while I was in college and also a little bit before that time. It was a great experience. He’s a wonderful musician and a lot of fun. I had heard him play with Billy Eckstine, and I knew about him through his records with Dizzy. I got his number and called him to study with him. He kicked my butt good. 

JazzReview.com: And you met Dizzy Gillespie when you were young? 

Adam Nussbaum: Yeah. I was eight or nine years old at that time. Leonard Bernstein had an afternoon benefit concert for the NAACP at a summer home in Fairfield, Connecticut. A bandstand was set up in his yard, and they had a picnic. A lot of people were playing there that day. I think Wes Montgomery, Morgana King and Billy Taylor were there. I remember that Dizzy was clowning around with me because I was captivated by the drums. Dizzy was such a fun-loving person and a giving person. He carried me piggy-back, and I guess it left a deep impression on me. Years later, I did get a chance to play with him. I was doing a concert with the American Jazz Orchestra at Cooper Union on Manhattan. The band was directed by John Lewis, and a lot of the top New York players were in it. The band paid a tribute to Dizzy by playing a lot of his big band music from the late forties and from his State Department band in the fifties. John Lewis, Al McKibbon and Bags were playing. At a certain point, Percy Heath showed up with Dizzy, but Connie Kay didn’t show up. I got to play “Confirmation” with Dizzy, John Lewis, Bags and Percy. I was glad my father was there that day. It’s nice when your parents are able to enjoy those kinds of situations. 

JazzReview.com: And your father is deceased now? 

Adam Nussbaum: Yes. My father was very creative, but he made his living as a technical illustrator. His real love was art. He worked in a variety of mediums: water color, oil and acrylics. He also made sculptures out of wood and metal. He was an amazing gardener, and he made wine and brandy. Both he and my mother were very pragmatic about helping to prepare me for dealing with the tribulations involved in pursuing art. They always said, “You should go to school because you never know what will happen. You have to be prepared in today’s world.” I tried college for a while, but genes are thicker than words. I had to pursue the music. Growing up in an atmosphere where there was an appreciation for art had a profound effect on me. My mother had been involved in acting and graphics. I was surrounded by the situation. Since I was an only child, a lot of my associations were with older people who were friends of theirs. 

JazzReview.com: You were born in the Bronx? 

Adam Nussbaum: Actually, I was born in Inwood Park in Manhattan: 87 West 204th Street. That’s on the verge of the Bronx, but it’s not in it. 

JazzReview.com: November 29, 1955. 

Adam Nussbaum: Yes. Billy Hart, Billy Strayhorn, Chuck Mangione and I was all born on the same day. 

JazzReview.com: And you heard Tony Williams when you were young? 

Adam Nussbaum: Yeah. It was the original Lifetime with Jack Bruce. That performance was amazing. I felt like the person in the Maxell ad--the one who sits in the chair and is being blown by the sound from the speaker. I couldn’t describe what was going on, but the energy from it was so intense that it enveloped me! 

JazzReview.com: How did you happen to go there? 

Adam Nussbaum: I used to see rock bands a lot at the Capitol Theater in Port Chester, New York. I saw Eric Clapton, Leslie West, and Delaney & Bonnie. I used to take the train there from Norwalk, Connecticut. I remember buying an issue of Jazz And Pop magazine that contained the critics’ poll. All of the guys in Tony Williams’ band had won the poll: John McLaughlin and Larry Young. I knew of Jack Bruce, of course, from Cream. I was in the fourth row. Tony was still using a small drum set. They were bright yellow drums with new cymbals. He was holding the microphone with his left hand as he sang, and he was still playing the drums with his feet and his right hand. Larry Young had incense coming off the organ. John McLaughlin was dressed like a knight, and he wore a big vest. He had a psychedelically painted guitar, and he had a crew cut. Jack Bruce was in the corner between the organ and the drums. He was out of the spotlight, and he was wearing a purple velvet suit. He was playing a clear Dan Armstrong bass, and he was reading charts. I thought, “How can he be reading?” You know, you remember those kinds of things when you’re young. 

I had never heard anybody play drums like that up until that point. I had been listening to jazz, but it was Bill Evans and Gerry Mulligan. Also, I was listening to rock. Jimi Hendrix was an important aspect of my development, as were Cream, Led Zeppelin and the Motown bands. But I had never seen anybody but Tony play with that ferocity. It was like jazz, but with the power and volume of rock-and-roll. He was one of the catalysts for me to play jazz.

JazzReview.com: What about pick-up bands? 

Adam Nussbaum: Sometimes you can get that kind of interplay, but it doesn’t happen all the time. That’s why pick-up bands often don’t have the same level of communication as regular bands. 

JazzReview.com: What do you think of some of the younger drummers’ abilities to inter-relate with band members? 

Adam Nussbaum: I think that some of the best drummers are the ones with the broadest scope. I like Brian Blade because he can cover a lot of territory, and he’s very real, no matter what he does. He’s a very sensitive musician. Some people got it, and some don’t. Prowess as a drummer is secondary as a necessary attribute. What’s important is how well a drummer can hear and react. In my opinion, the greatest players are listening, feeling and responding. 

JazzReview.com: What do you think of Matt Wilson? 

Adam Nussbaum: I enjoy what he contributes. In a way, Matt is similar to me. We didn’t grow up just listening to bebop. We grew up with rock-and-roll. He taps into all of his experiences. I tap into everything I’ve been exposed to. I’ve learned things I want to do, and I’ve learned things I don’t want to do. 

I’ve found that the higher you get up the mountain, the more there is to see. The world is getting smaller, and music is being influenced by many different cultures. 

I think jazz is an approach that can be put on any type of music. I try to look at the commonalities, instead of just the differences.